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ForumsWEPR[Necro] Does God exist?

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locoace3
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locoace3
15,053 posts
Nomad

since there really s no topic on whether or not he really exists and created people i decided to make one


start debating... NOW!

  • 697 Replies
mysteriousmexican666
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mysteriousmexican666
318 posts
Nomad

Yes it is.
I don't really consider it blind faith since I feel god all the time.
Ive seen you post, and on the subject of religion I must disagree.
Well, one important part of thinking is that it happens within the head. Since you aren't me and don't know how I think, I find it rude for you to say that I don't think intellectually. Another point is that intellectually doesn't mean scientifically, so basing your opinion on that is wrong.
Once again, according to you. Now can you find some statistics stating this?
What do you want me to do? Make these people email you? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with that. In any sense, I don't believe there has been an actual survey of some sort to prove or disprove the point, so no, I don't have any statistics. Why don't you run a test for me?
thugtastic
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thugtastic
162 posts
Peasant

I agree, I am religious and I have a IQ of 154.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,471 posts
Farmer

Umm, this isn't really what religion is about. I'm religious, but I have a very intellectual mind. Many religious people I know are like this as well. I don't like the fact that you imply that religion dumbs people down.


A person can be intelligent and still lack critical thinking skills to properly apply that intellect.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,471 posts
Farmer

I don't really consider it blind faith since I feel god all the time.


Interesting you say that considering one of my examples of it retarding critical thinking.

"1. Care that their beliefs be true, and that their decisions be justified; that is, care to "get it right" to the extent possible. This includes the dispositions to"

I don't see religion caring that the beliefs be true. Particularly if your just follow out of some form of comfort. There is no care that the decisions be justified, that can just be taken on faith.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I don't really consider it blind faith since I feel god all the time.


Really? Now could you describe this "God" feeling so we can have it tested in a laboratory setting? Your blind faith just proves my point.

Well, one important part of thinking is that it happens within the head. Since you aren't me and don't know how I think, I find it rude for you to say that I don't think intellectually. Another point is that intellectually doesn't mean scientifically, so basing your opinion on that is wrong.


I can read your posts and deduct weather you are a subjectively intelligent thinker. I have yet to see you use one bit of logic or scientific reasoning, and do to the fact that we are speaking of a subjective word and I have been able to deduce that you are not fitting my description of an intelligent thinker, I can say that you are not an intelligent thinker. Why can't I?

Now may I ask what traits you have put into your writing on this forum that would lead me to believe that you are the least bit intelligent?

What do you want me to do? Make these people email you? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with that. In any sense, I don't believe there has been an actual survey of some sort to prove or disprove the point, so no, I don't have any statistics. Why don't you run a test for me?


Unfortunately I don't have the time or funds to do this properly, I will just have to attempt to find a source that can state this somewhat independently.

This seems to suggest I am correct:

http://www.godandscience.org/images/iqvsreligion.gif

This is quite common, so it is rather difficult to find the original source.

Of course I suppose if I could get my hand on some census reports I could make a graft myself...

I agree, I am religious and I have a IQ of 154.


I don't believe you. Now could you please provide some evidence of this?
Kasic
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Kasic
5,558 posts
Jester

I don't really consider it blind faith since I feel god all the time.


Really? What does he feel like.

Well, one important part of thinking is that it happens within the head. Since you aren't me and don't know how I think, I find it rude for you to say that I don't think intellectually.


And writing is a form of expressing said thought, so there is a way to judge.

I agree, I am religious and I have a IQ of 154.


Forgive me if I don't believe you, but this is the internet and anyone can make any claim.

In any sense, I don't believe there has been an actual survey of some sort to prove or disprove the point, so no, I don't have any statistics. Why don't you run a test for me?


While this is entirely subjective and most likely a little biased, in my life, I feel that I have noticed a few things. One, people are stupid. Two, stupid people are gullible. Three, many of the people who I actually like to discuss things/argue with at the very least do not fanatically believe in God. In fact they may not, i've never asked them. This is just from my experience. I have never met anyone who I consider smart that was very openly religious, whereas I have met many people who I would refer to as the opposite that felt the need to press god into every part of their lives. Even if the subject wasn't about God, it would inevitably be worked into it as some sort of proud statement, "I believe in God," or, "I'm a Christian," or "That's what Jesus would want me to do." I think you get the point anyways.
alexstargazer
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alexstargazer
347 posts
Nomad

So, you are all saying that believing in God makes you less intellectual?

I am openly religious and I have a 3.9 in school. Yes, I may not be the smartest kid in my school, but it is a Christian school. In the area I live in, our school is known as one of the more intellectual schools.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

So, you are all saying that believing in God makes you less intellectual?


Personally I am saying that less intellectual people believe in god.

I am openly religious and I have a 3.9 in school. Yes, I may not be the smartest kid in my school, but it is a Christian schoo


I fail to see your point. Half of it is probably indoctrination. Ill bet that you don't even have a proper science plan, or do they actually teach you what evolution is now? Whatever, "faith schools" are a different topic.

In the area I live in, our school is known as one of the more intellectual schools.


I would like someone to independently verify this, from a different school, or possibly for you to clarify "The area I live in". What do you mean by that? In your town? Your state? Your valley? Be more specific.

Or in the case where you are not going to verify it, I am known as the most handsome man in the county. Everyone thinks so. No need to verify it with anyone else.
alexstargazer
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alexstargazer
347 posts
Nomad

I do not feel the need to give out the location that I live in. Yes, I do in fact know about evolution because I was taught on it. It is our town, or the western part of our state. I can believe that overall less intellectual people believe in some sort of god. However there still are intellectuals who believe in a Diety.

notataco
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notataco
189 posts
Nomad

Ok um i believe in god and dont care if others dont but why do people have to be so negative about religion like seriously? I haven't read the entire thread so enlighten me if some holy roller came on and bashed you but if not you guys could stop being ***** for no reason? I'm not mad but seriously everyone on here is being pretty dumb at this
point

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I do not feel the need to give out the location that I live in. Yes, I do in fact know about evolution because I was taught on it. It is our town, or the western part of our state.


So you are praised as an intellectual school in your town? In the western part of your state? You are being unclear. I don't care for the location of your school, I just want to see the numbers indicating that your school is "more intellectual" then the surrounding aria and praised as such.

Yes, I do in fact know about evolution because I was taught on it.


Then would you care to prove it with a brief description?

However there still are intellectuals who believe in a Diety.


Does capitalizing Words have an importance to you? No matter, I suppose. I assume that that is a slim possibility, but it is mainly do to the fact that these people don't focus on it and don't question it. Or could you give me a scientist who has made a massive advancement to modern science in the last hundred years or so? It may have been considered o.k to believe in a man in the sky who makes lighting and rain back when we didn't know what any of that was, but now that we do it is just foolish.

Ok um i believe in god and dont care if others dont but why do people have to be so negative about religion like seriously?


Because I prefer my abortion centers and towers where they are, rather than blown up.

Religion has been the root of countless wars, hatred, and violence for as long as it has been around. It seems everyone is always justifying what they do with it. When we have people being killed daily do to religion, I have plenty reason to hate it.

I haven't read the entire thread so enlighten me if some holy roller came on and bashed you but if not you guys could stop being ***** for no reason?


For no reason? Have you ever turned on the news? Hell, America is in a war against religious fundamentalist. Abortion centers get blown up by Christians. People are trying to push their religion in schools. A state is spending taxpayer money to fund a "museum" about Noah's ark. Large towers full of people have had planes run into them. Going back even further, angry men with swords invade a desert town do to religion. Religious wars all through history, from Hitler to that lion hart guy. There is plenty of reason to hate religion.

I'm not mad but seriously everyone on here is being pretty dumb at this
point


Billions of deaths trough history is plenty reason to get angry about something.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,445 posts
Jester

@314d1
You asked for a religious scientist in the last hundred years. Einstein was a Jew.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,471 posts
Farmer

You asked for a religious scientist in the last hundred years. Einstein was a Jew.


Even though he didn't like the label he was an atheist.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

@314d1
You asked for a religious scientist in the last hundred years. Einstein was a Jew.


Was. When he grew up, he became an atheist.

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?" Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter 3.

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
-- Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)

For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything "chosen" about them.
-- Albert Einstein, in a letter responding to philosopher Eric Gutkind, who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt; quoted from James Randerson, "Childish Superstition: Einstein's Letter Makes View of Religion Relatively Clear: Scientist's Reply to Sell for up to £8,000, and Stoke Debate over His Beliefs" The Guardian, (13 May 2008)

Strange is our situation here on Earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet sometimes seeming to divine a purpose. From the standpoint of daily life, however, there is one thing we do know: that man is here for the sake of other men -- above all for those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness depends.
-- Albert Einstein, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief, p. 241

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
-- Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955, quoted from James A Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)

However we select from nature a complex [of phenomena] using the criterion of simplicity, in no case will its theoretical treatment turn out to be forever appropriate (sufficient).... I do not doubt that the day will come when [general relativity], too, will have to yield to another one, for reasons which at present we do not yet surmise. I believe that this process of deepening theory has no limits.
-- Albert Einstein, acknowledging that all claims to knowledge are de facto subject to revision upon presentation of newer, better evidence, quoted from Victor J Stenger, Physics and Psychics

I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

[Excerpt]
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

[Passage]
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion.
-- Albert Einstein (attributed: source unknown)

Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.
-- Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray. Source: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann

I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God.
-- Albert Einstein, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.
-- Albert Einstein, The World as I See It

I am convinced that some political and social activities and practices of the Catholic organizations are detrimental and even dangerous for the community as a whole, here and everywhere. I mention here only the fight against birth control at a time when overpopulation in various countries has become a serious threat to the health of people and a grave obstacle to any attempt to organize peace on this planet.
-- Albert Einstein, letter, 1954

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions(Bold added by me), a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

I assume I may be able to find a few more, but it is clear Eisenstein was not Jewish while he was a scientist.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,471 posts
Farmer

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
-- Albert Einstein


That's going in my list of quotes.
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